What's the difference between repeating elections every few years and repeating a referendum after a few years?What is a “confirmatory” referendum in the context of Brexit?Why was the Brexit referendum conducted as a simple majority vote?What's the difference between Neorealism and Neoliberalism?What's the point in holding a second Brexit referendum?Why does partisanship trump concerns about hypocrisy with voters?What are the reasons for not having a voter turnout threshold for a nation-wide referendum?Why doesn't the UK hold a second Brexit referendum to clarify what the public wants from Brexit?Is a second EU Referendum undemocratic?Would it be plausible to solve the Irish Border issue by unifying Ireland?Why is participating in the European Parliamentary elections used as a threat?What is a “confirmatory” referendum in the context of Brexit?

Why is my log file so massive? 22gb. I am running log backups

What happens when a metallic dragon and a chromatic dragon mate?

Denied boarding due to overcrowding, Sparpreis ticket. What are my rights?

Shall I use personal or official e-mail account when registering to external websites for work purpose?

Is every set a filtered colimit of finite sets?

How to make payment on the internet without leaving a money trail?

Why do UK politicians seemingly ignore opinion polls on Brexit?

Are objects structures and/or vice versa?

If a centaur druid Wild Shapes into a Giant Elk, do their Charge features stack?

How to move the player while also allowing forces to affect it

Is domain driven design an anti-SQL pattern?

Symmetry in quantum mechanics

How do I create uniquely male characters?

Was there ever an axiom rendered a theorem?

What does 'script /dev/null' do?

Why is the design of haulage companies so “special”?

How can I fix this gap between bookcases I made?

Is it wise to focus on putting odd beats on left when playing double bass drums?

When blogging recipes, how can I support both readers who want the narrative/journey and ones who want the printer-friendly recipe?

Ideas for 3rd eye abilities

What does it exactly mean if a random variable follows a distribution

How to deal with fear of taking dependencies

Domain expired, GoDaddy holds it and is asking more money

Can I legally use front facing blue light in the UK?



What's the difference between repeating elections every few years and repeating a referendum after a few years?


What is a “confirmatory” referendum in the context of Brexit?Why was the Brexit referendum conducted as a simple majority vote?What's the difference between Neorealism and Neoliberalism?What's the point in holding a second Brexit referendum?Why does partisanship trump concerns about hypocrisy with voters?What are the reasons for not having a voter turnout threshold for a nation-wide referendum?Why doesn't the UK hold a second Brexit referendum to clarify what the public wants from Brexit?Is a second EU Referendum undemocratic?Would it be plausible to solve the Irish Border issue by unifying Ireland?Why is participating in the European Parliamentary elections used as a threat?What is a “confirmatory” referendum in the context of Brexit?













3















There's a lot of talk in the UK these days about how holding a second referendum on Brexit would be "undemocratic" and "go against the spirit of referendums". However repeating a vote doesn't seem all that strange in a democracy. The UK itself holds parliamentary elections every 5 years or even less frequently if the government dissolves parliament. Other countries routinely hold elections every 4 years or even 2 years in the case of US Congress.



So what's the big deal about holding a second Brexit vote? Wouldn't it be akin to choosing a new government after a few years? Why can voters change their mind about who runs the country but cannot change their mind about the outcome of a referendum?










share|improve this question



















  • 2





    More to the point: what's the big deal about repeating a referendum, when the ERG's second in command is asking for an early repeat of May's confidence vote -- on the basis that had they known what it entailed many would have not voted the same way, no less?

    – Denis de Bernardy
    9 hours ago







  • 3





    Why not just hold another vote until you get the result you want? That is clearly the slippery slope another reference will cause, especially when we haven't even implemented brexit yet. If you treat this referendum like a presidential election that everybody has voted on, it would be as absurd as somebody winning the presidential election on November, then having ANOTHER presidential election on December before that person even took office because you weren't happy with the previous result.

    – Matthew Liu
    8 hours ago











  • @Fizz while that's the case, this is actually a good question (IMHO) because the talking points that Jonathan mentions ('undemocratic' and 'against the spirits of referendums') are used by those opposing it. In addition to that, the referendum, even in a slightly different form, is still about the same issue that we've come to know as Brexit.

    – JJJ
    7 hours ago















3















There's a lot of talk in the UK these days about how holding a second referendum on Brexit would be "undemocratic" and "go against the spirit of referendums". However repeating a vote doesn't seem all that strange in a democracy. The UK itself holds parliamentary elections every 5 years or even less frequently if the government dissolves parliament. Other countries routinely hold elections every 4 years or even 2 years in the case of US Congress.



So what's the big deal about holding a second Brexit vote? Wouldn't it be akin to choosing a new government after a few years? Why can voters change their mind about who runs the country but cannot change their mind about the outcome of a referendum?










share|improve this question



















  • 2





    More to the point: what's the big deal about repeating a referendum, when the ERG's second in command is asking for an early repeat of May's confidence vote -- on the basis that had they known what it entailed many would have not voted the same way, no less?

    – Denis de Bernardy
    9 hours ago







  • 3





    Why not just hold another vote until you get the result you want? That is clearly the slippery slope another reference will cause, especially when we haven't even implemented brexit yet. If you treat this referendum like a presidential election that everybody has voted on, it would be as absurd as somebody winning the presidential election on November, then having ANOTHER presidential election on December before that person even took office because you weren't happy with the previous result.

    – Matthew Liu
    8 hours ago











  • @Fizz while that's the case, this is actually a good question (IMHO) because the talking points that Jonathan mentions ('undemocratic' and 'against the spirits of referendums') are used by those opposing it. In addition to that, the referendum, even in a slightly different form, is still about the same issue that we've come to know as Brexit.

    – JJJ
    7 hours ago













3












3








3








There's a lot of talk in the UK these days about how holding a second referendum on Brexit would be "undemocratic" and "go against the spirit of referendums". However repeating a vote doesn't seem all that strange in a democracy. The UK itself holds parliamentary elections every 5 years or even less frequently if the government dissolves parliament. Other countries routinely hold elections every 4 years or even 2 years in the case of US Congress.



So what's the big deal about holding a second Brexit vote? Wouldn't it be akin to choosing a new government after a few years? Why can voters change their mind about who runs the country but cannot change their mind about the outcome of a referendum?










share|improve this question
















There's a lot of talk in the UK these days about how holding a second referendum on Brexit would be "undemocratic" and "go against the spirit of referendums". However repeating a vote doesn't seem all that strange in a democracy. The UK itself holds parliamentary elections every 5 years or even less frequently if the government dissolves parliament. Other countries routinely hold elections every 4 years or even 2 years in the case of US Congress.



So what's the big deal about holding a second Brexit vote? Wouldn't it be akin to choosing a new government after a few years? Why can voters change their mind about who runs the country but cannot change their mind about the outcome of a referendum?







united-kingdom brexit political-theory referendum






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 4 hours ago









Fizz

14.1k23490




14.1k23490










asked 9 hours ago









JonathanReezJonathanReez

14.7k1784166




14.7k1784166







  • 2





    More to the point: what's the big deal about repeating a referendum, when the ERG's second in command is asking for an early repeat of May's confidence vote -- on the basis that had they known what it entailed many would have not voted the same way, no less?

    – Denis de Bernardy
    9 hours ago







  • 3





    Why not just hold another vote until you get the result you want? That is clearly the slippery slope another reference will cause, especially when we haven't even implemented brexit yet. If you treat this referendum like a presidential election that everybody has voted on, it would be as absurd as somebody winning the presidential election on November, then having ANOTHER presidential election on December before that person even took office because you weren't happy with the previous result.

    – Matthew Liu
    8 hours ago











  • @Fizz while that's the case, this is actually a good question (IMHO) because the talking points that Jonathan mentions ('undemocratic' and 'against the spirits of referendums') are used by those opposing it. In addition to that, the referendum, even in a slightly different form, is still about the same issue that we've come to know as Brexit.

    – JJJ
    7 hours ago












  • 2





    More to the point: what's the big deal about repeating a referendum, when the ERG's second in command is asking for an early repeat of May's confidence vote -- on the basis that had they known what it entailed many would have not voted the same way, no less?

    – Denis de Bernardy
    9 hours ago







  • 3





    Why not just hold another vote until you get the result you want? That is clearly the slippery slope another reference will cause, especially when we haven't even implemented brexit yet. If you treat this referendum like a presidential election that everybody has voted on, it would be as absurd as somebody winning the presidential election on November, then having ANOTHER presidential election on December before that person even took office because you weren't happy with the previous result.

    – Matthew Liu
    8 hours ago











  • @Fizz while that's the case, this is actually a good question (IMHO) because the talking points that Jonathan mentions ('undemocratic' and 'against the spirits of referendums') are used by those opposing it. In addition to that, the referendum, even in a slightly different form, is still about the same issue that we've come to know as Brexit.

    – JJJ
    7 hours ago







2




2





More to the point: what's the big deal about repeating a referendum, when the ERG's second in command is asking for an early repeat of May's confidence vote -- on the basis that had they known what it entailed many would have not voted the same way, no less?

– Denis de Bernardy
9 hours ago






More to the point: what's the big deal about repeating a referendum, when the ERG's second in command is asking for an early repeat of May's confidence vote -- on the basis that had they known what it entailed many would have not voted the same way, no less?

– Denis de Bernardy
9 hours ago





3




3





Why not just hold another vote until you get the result you want? That is clearly the slippery slope another reference will cause, especially when we haven't even implemented brexit yet. If you treat this referendum like a presidential election that everybody has voted on, it would be as absurd as somebody winning the presidential election on November, then having ANOTHER presidential election on December before that person even took office because you weren't happy with the previous result.

– Matthew Liu
8 hours ago





Why not just hold another vote until you get the result you want? That is clearly the slippery slope another reference will cause, especially when we haven't even implemented brexit yet. If you treat this referendum like a presidential election that everybody has voted on, it would be as absurd as somebody winning the presidential election on November, then having ANOTHER presidential election on December before that person even took office because you weren't happy with the previous result.

– Matthew Liu
8 hours ago













@Fizz while that's the case, this is actually a good question (IMHO) because the talking points that Jonathan mentions ('undemocratic' and 'against the spirits of referendums') are used by those opposing it. In addition to that, the referendum, even in a slightly different form, is still about the same issue that we've come to know as Brexit.

– JJJ
7 hours ago





@Fizz while that's the case, this is actually a good question (IMHO) because the talking points that Jonathan mentions ('undemocratic' and 'against the spirits of referendums') are used by those opposing it. In addition to that, the referendum, even in a slightly different form, is still about the same issue that we've come to know as Brexit.

– JJJ
7 hours ago










4 Answers
4






active

oldest

votes


















2














The difference between such one-off referendums and general elections is that everyone knows the general election results are only 'used' for the next term. Indeed, when you vote for a politician in a general election (assuming this takes place in a stable democracy) you know you will get another vote in a certain number of years time.



The difference with the Brexit referendum is that it wasn't clear how it would be implemented. Given the gravity of the matter in the referendum, even those opposed took it seriously, however, it was still a non-binding referendum, it was advisory. The fact that rules weren't / aren't clear to everyone means that people will have different opinions on it. In particular, those who got the result they wanted won't want another referendum and those who think they can win this time might want one.



The big problem with doing such referendums over and over again is that it continues the uncertainty. And even after a second referendum, whatever the outcome, there will be calls for a third, etc. The big problem here is obviously that the rules weren't clear when they had the first referendum. For example, they could have said: we will have a referendum now and then we agree with all parties involved that that result will be it, at least for the next X years. That way, at least everyone knows where they stand and what the result means for them.



Then there's the problem that's specific to Brexit, it's a very complicated issue, much more complicated then installing a couple of hundred new politicians and some staff. As you say, some countries have elections every few years, but in the case of Brexit it has taken that long already to prepare for actually leaving. And that is only the first step, then the UK will want to negotiate their future relationship.



All in all, the problems are twofold: the parties involved hadn't pre-agreed the rules (not even as a 'gentlemen's agreement') and the matter at hand is too complex to change one's position every few years.






share|improve this answer






























    1














    If the subject-matter or circumstances of the "repeat" referendum are sufficiently different, there is no difference from elections.



    Yeah, I know the typical argument against referendum repeats is the "democratic deficit" they supposedly have by asking the "same question". (I'll come back to this.) But before we get to that: one could ask the question in reverse: why would a candidate that has failed an election be allowed to run again later for the same office?! After all, the public said no to him. Should he be allowed to run until he gets his way? Of course, even if all candidates are exactly the same on a later ballot, chances are something has changed: their platforms etc.



    Now as for the "same question" referendums, the much criticized repeat referendums for EU Treaty changes/adoptions didn't ever have the exact same question, even if it was nominally the same on paper. There were in fact concessions and renegotiations before the "same" question was asked in all cases. The referendum repeat that was preceded by least concessions was the one with the lowest initial turnout: Nice 2001 in Ireland. In that case, the changes were more declarative than legally binding and efforts focused on a better campaign. For the other repeats, the concessions were more substantive and based on the specific objections of the "no" campaigns; after the Danish referendum of 1992, there was a legally binding [under international law] document agreed by all EU heads of state, although its position within the EU legal framework was considered somewhat awkward. The Irish rejection of the Lisbon Treaty in 2008 also resulted in substantive concessions; these took a legal form similar to the solution to the 1992 Danish problem, but it was also boosted by an agreement to include a specific part of it in a future EU treaty, as to clarify its position in EU law as well. (The convenient legal vehicle that was found for the latter was Croatia's accession treaty of 2011.)



    Finally, how does this relate to Brexit referendum(s)? The more concrete proposals I know about don't simply ask for a repeat (although I have no doubt the vague notion may have been publicly discussed). Instead the proposal(s) I know about were for a "confirmatory" referendum, meaning the now-concrete deal would be voted on, instead of a general/vague idea. Arguably this is somewhat different than a new referendum following concessions/renegotiation. But in either case, the public has substantially new information that it can use to answer the "same" question, which in the case of a Brexit confirmatory referendum wouldn't even be nominally the same. (Bercow would be pleased.)



    And if I'm allowed an imperfect but hopefully still informative analogy: I would compare the 2016 Brexit referendum to an "informal" poll in the EU Council proceedings, which asks each member for their position in principle, at the start of a
    discussion, but without binding the member to agree to whatever final legal document is produced. I have a couple of arguments in support of this: unlike the 2011 AV referendum, the law authorizing the 2016 one did not make the referendum result legally binding.
    Furthermore, the uncertainty regarding the exact separation conditions (that had yet to be negotiated) give it this "agreement-in-principle" character, similar to the EU Council "informal" polls. (The analogy only goes so far, of course: there is no record kept of the EU Council's informal polls, something that's impossible to do with a nationwide referendum.) The confirmatory referendums proposed (in the amendments I know about) would, in contrast, be legally binding and also about a specific way of exiting the EU.



    Finally, I will concede that the topic of repeat referendums is still controversial and does not have a lot of precedents.






    share|improve this answer
































      0














      When a politician is elected, the voters assume that he or she will be put in office very soon. How many times can you say in a western democracy that a politician was elected, but never actually took office?



      The decision by the UK to leave the EU was elected by the voters, but the UK is still in the EU. If the UK holds another referendum and the Remainers win, who's to say that the Leavers can't demand a 3rd referendum? Or 4th? What's the point?






      share|improve this answer


















      • 2





        You're applying two different standards. On the one hand side you're comparing well functioning democratic voting with a referendum that's fuming with lies and campaign finance law violations. In less well functioning "democracies" calls to re-run elections are a regular occurrence. Whether they do occur is another matter, but you can't just assume that a well run democratic vote compares with something reminiscent of a banana republic.

        – Denis de Bernardy
        9 hours ago











      • @DenisdeBernardy are you sure general elections in stable democracies are completely free of lies and don't have campaign finance law violations? I think that's wishful thinking. Some examples: G.W. Bush, Obama & Trump.

        – JJJ
        8 hours ago












      • @JJJ: Not sure at all. My initial comment on this answer literally was: "Hillary Clinton? Al Gore?" But then he edited the answer so it's much more detailed, so I switched to the one above.

        – Denis de Bernardy
        8 hours ago











      • @DenisdeBernardy Many Leavers say that the Remain campaign is also fuming with lies. Who is the UK to believe?

        – user3163495
        4 hours ago



















      0














      At a formal level you're asking about two different standards



      Where elections are usually not a source of contention in the UK, the referendum certainly was. Because of a long string of lies and at times dispiriting fear mongering during the campaign (remember the bus that got disowned by Farage the day after Leave won?), and because of campaign finance law violations.



      And just to be clear here: even in reasonably well functioning democracies, elections are contested and there's no shortage of campaign finance violations, corruption, and at times outright fraud, or voter suppression, or even legal challenges of the result (remember Gore?). Still, it works relatively well compared to, say, [your pick of a less mature democracy; ideally one with a semi- or full-blown autocrat at the helm].



      If you instead compare the Brexit referendum with elections in less well run democracies, where blatant lies and campaign law violations are more commonplace, things become murkier. You'll find that, actually, observers do suggest an honest rerun every so often, when it's not the voters themselves who ask for one. (Whether it gets done is another story entirely of course, which makes it a non-story in western countries unless people get shot at for protesting the vote.)



      At a more substantive level there are two sides of this coin



      On the one hand side you've May and politicians on both sides of the political spectrum who are arguing that if voters are asked to vote for this again, especially without seeing it put into place before that, then they will lose even more faith in their politicians and their democratic institutions. And I agree with that argument up to a point. You can't put something back to the voters until they give the answer you want (which, fun fact, EU leaders technically did in a sense with the Lisbon treaty). But I'd also stress that in May's specific case, it's also and actually about keeping the Conservative Party intact. And even if we leave the bad faith and the political calculations aside, there's probably something to be said about gaining and retaining voters' trust to begin with.



      On the other hand side, those who support a People's Vote argue that hey, those who voted Leave had no idea about what they were signing up for. They were lied to, and promised the moon, etc. They can now actually make up their mind and decide on whether it's a good idea with a concrete deal before them. They actually have an excellent point -- whichever other option(s) voters would want to see on the ballot (No Brexit, or No Deal, or both). And it makes a good deal of sense, when you consider that defending the concrete but imperfect things that you have can't really win a battle in the court of public opinion, against some hypothetical, as of yet defined, and very wishful place some would like to take you.




      More to the point, and as I've noted in an earlier comment to your question, the real wtf here is: what's the big deal about repeating a referendum, when the ERG's second in command asked earlier today for an early repeat of May's confidence vote -- on the basis, wait for it, that had they known what it entailed, many would have not voted the same way?






      share|improve this answer

























        Your Answer








        StackExchange.ready(function()
        var channelOptions =
        tags: "".split(" "),
        id: "475"
        ;
        initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

        StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
        // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
        if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
        StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
        createEditor();
        );

        else
        createEditor();

        );

        function createEditor()
        StackExchange.prepareEditor(
        heartbeatType: 'answer',
        autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
        convertImagesToLinks: false,
        noModals: true,
        showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
        reputationToPostImages: null,
        bindNavPrevention: true,
        postfix: "",
        imageUploader:
        brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
        contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
        allowUrls: true
        ,
        noCode: true, onDemand: true,
        discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
        ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
        );



        );













        draft saved

        draft discarded


















        StackExchange.ready(
        function ()
        StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fpolitics.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f40369%2fwhats-the-difference-between-repeating-elections-every-few-years-and-repeating%23new-answer', 'question_page');

        );

        Post as a guest















        Required, but never shown

























        4 Answers
        4






        active

        oldest

        votes








        4 Answers
        4






        active

        oldest

        votes









        active

        oldest

        votes






        active

        oldest

        votes









        2














        The difference between such one-off referendums and general elections is that everyone knows the general election results are only 'used' for the next term. Indeed, when you vote for a politician in a general election (assuming this takes place in a stable democracy) you know you will get another vote in a certain number of years time.



        The difference with the Brexit referendum is that it wasn't clear how it would be implemented. Given the gravity of the matter in the referendum, even those opposed took it seriously, however, it was still a non-binding referendum, it was advisory. The fact that rules weren't / aren't clear to everyone means that people will have different opinions on it. In particular, those who got the result they wanted won't want another referendum and those who think they can win this time might want one.



        The big problem with doing such referendums over and over again is that it continues the uncertainty. And even after a second referendum, whatever the outcome, there will be calls for a third, etc. The big problem here is obviously that the rules weren't clear when they had the first referendum. For example, they could have said: we will have a referendum now and then we agree with all parties involved that that result will be it, at least for the next X years. That way, at least everyone knows where they stand and what the result means for them.



        Then there's the problem that's specific to Brexit, it's a very complicated issue, much more complicated then installing a couple of hundred new politicians and some staff. As you say, some countries have elections every few years, but in the case of Brexit it has taken that long already to prepare for actually leaving. And that is only the first step, then the UK will want to negotiate their future relationship.



        All in all, the problems are twofold: the parties involved hadn't pre-agreed the rules (not even as a 'gentlemen's agreement') and the matter at hand is too complex to change one's position every few years.






        share|improve this answer



























          2














          The difference between such one-off referendums and general elections is that everyone knows the general election results are only 'used' for the next term. Indeed, when you vote for a politician in a general election (assuming this takes place in a stable democracy) you know you will get another vote in a certain number of years time.



          The difference with the Brexit referendum is that it wasn't clear how it would be implemented. Given the gravity of the matter in the referendum, even those opposed took it seriously, however, it was still a non-binding referendum, it was advisory. The fact that rules weren't / aren't clear to everyone means that people will have different opinions on it. In particular, those who got the result they wanted won't want another referendum and those who think they can win this time might want one.



          The big problem with doing such referendums over and over again is that it continues the uncertainty. And even after a second referendum, whatever the outcome, there will be calls for a third, etc. The big problem here is obviously that the rules weren't clear when they had the first referendum. For example, they could have said: we will have a referendum now and then we agree with all parties involved that that result will be it, at least for the next X years. That way, at least everyone knows where they stand and what the result means for them.



          Then there's the problem that's specific to Brexit, it's a very complicated issue, much more complicated then installing a couple of hundred new politicians and some staff. As you say, some countries have elections every few years, but in the case of Brexit it has taken that long already to prepare for actually leaving. And that is only the first step, then the UK will want to negotiate their future relationship.



          All in all, the problems are twofold: the parties involved hadn't pre-agreed the rules (not even as a 'gentlemen's agreement') and the matter at hand is too complex to change one's position every few years.






          share|improve this answer

























            2












            2








            2







            The difference between such one-off referendums and general elections is that everyone knows the general election results are only 'used' for the next term. Indeed, when you vote for a politician in a general election (assuming this takes place in a stable democracy) you know you will get another vote in a certain number of years time.



            The difference with the Brexit referendum is that it wasn't clear how it would be implemented. Given the gravity of the matter in the referendum, even those opposed took it seriously, however, it was still a non-binding referendum, it was advisory. The fact that rules weren't / aren't clear to everyone means that people will have different opinions on it. In particular, those who got the result they wanted won't want another referendum and those who think they can win this time might want one.



            The big problem with doing such referendums over and over again is that it continues the uncertainty. And even after a second referendum, whatever the outcome, there will be calls for a third, etc. The big problem here is obviously that the rules weren't clear when they had the first referendum. For example, they could have said: we will have a referendum now and then we agree with all parties involved that that result will be it, at least for the next X years. That way, at least everyone knows where they stand and what the result means for them.



            Then there's the problem that's specific to Brexit, it's a very complicated issue, much more complicated then installing a couple of hundred new politicians and some staff. As you say, some countries have elections every few years, but in the case of Brexit it has taken that long already to prepare for actually leaving. And that is only the first step, then the UK will want to negotiate their future relationship.



            All in all, the problems are twofold: the parties involved hadn't pre-agreed the rules (not even as a 'gentlemen's agreement') and the matter at hand is too complex to change one's position every few years.






            share|improve this answer













            The difference between such one-off referendums and general elections is that everyone knows the general election results are only 'used' for the next term. Indeed, when you vote for a politician in a general election (assuming this takes place in a stable democracy) you know you will get another vote in a certain number of years time.



            The difference with the Brexit referendum is that it wasn't clear how it would be implemented. Given the gravity of the matter in the referendum, even those opposed took it seriously, however, it was still a non-binding referendum, it was advisory. The fact that rules weren't / aren't clear to everyone means that people will have different opinions on it. In particular, those who got the result they wanted won't want another referendum and those who think they can win this time might want one.



            The big problem with doing such referendums over and over again is that it continues the uncertainty. And even after a second referendum, whatever the outcome, there will be calls for a third, etc. The big problem here is obviously that the rules weren't clear when they had the first referendum. For example, they could have said: we will have a referendum now and then we agree with all parties involved that that result will be it, at least for the next X years. That way, at least everyone knows where they stand and what the result means for them.



            Then there's the problem that's specific to Brexit, it's a very complicated issue, much more complicated then installing a couple of hundred new politicians and some staff. As you say, some countries have elections every few years, but in the case of Brexit it has taken that long already to prepare for actually leaving. And that is only the first step, then the UK will want to negotiate their future relationship.



            All in all, the problems are twofold: the parties involved hadn't pre-agreed the rules (not even as a 'gentlemen's agreement') and the matter at hand is too complex to change one's position every few years.







            share|improve this answer












            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer










            answered 9 hours ago









            JJJJJJ

            6,04422454




            6,04422454





















                1














                If the subject-matter or circumstances of the "repeat" referendum are sufficiently different, there is no difference from elections.



                Yeah, I know the typical argument against referendum repeats is the "democratic deficit" they supposedly have by asking the "same question". (I'll come back to this.) But before we get to that: one could ask the question in reverse: why would a candidate that has failed an election be allowed to run again later for the same office?! After all, the public said no to him. Should he be allowed to run until he gets his way? Of course, even if all candidates are exactly the same on a later ballot, chances are something has changed: their platforms etc.



                Now as for the "same question" referendums, the much criticized repeat referendums for EU Treaty changes/adoptions didn't ever have the exact same question, even if it was nominally the same on paper. There were in fact concessions and renegotiations before the "same" question was asked in all cases. The referendum repeat that was preceded by least concessions was the one with the lowest initial turnout: Nice 2001 in Ireland. In that case, the changes were more declarative than legally binding and efforts focused on a better campaign. For the other repeats, the concessions were more substantive and based on the specific objections of the "no" campaigns; after the Danish referendum of 1992, there was a legally binding [under international law] document agreed by all EU heads of state, although its position within the EU legal framework was considered somewhat awkward. The Irish rejection of the Lisbon Treaty in 2008 also resulted in substantive concessions; these took a legal form similar to the solution to the 1992 Danish problem, but it was also boosted by an agreement to include a specific part of it in a future EU treaty, as to clarify its position in EU law as well. (The convenient legal vehicle that was found for the latter was Croatia's accession treaty of 2011.)



                Finally, how does this relate to Brexit referendum(s)? The more concrete proposals I know about don't simply ask for a repeat (although I have no doubt the vague notion may have been publicly discussed). Instead the proposal(s) I know about were for a "confirmatory" referendum, meaning the now-concrete deal would be voted on, instead of a general/vague idea. Arguably this is somewhat different than a new referendum following concessions/renegotiation. But in either case, the public has substantially new information that it can use to answer the "same" question, which in the case of a Brexit confirmatory referendum wouldn't even be nominally the same. (Bercow would be pleased.)



                And if I'm allowed an imperfect but hopefully still informative analogy: I would compare the 2016 Brexit referendum to an "informal" poll in the EU Council proceedings, which asks each member for their position in principle, at the start of a
                discussion, but without binding the member to agree to whatever final legal document is produced. I have a couple of arguments in support of this: unlike the 2011 AV referendum, the law authorizing the 2016 one did not make the referendum result legally binding.
                Furthermore, the uncertainty regarding the exact separation conditions (that had yet to be negotiated) give it this "agreement-in-principle" character, similar to the EU Council "informal" polls. (The analogy only goes so far, of course: there is no record kept of the EU Council's informal polls, something that's impossible to do with a nationwide referendum.) The confirmatory referendums proposed (in the amendments I know about) would, in contrast, be legally binding and also about a specific way of exiting the EU.



                Finally, I will concede that the topic of repeat referendums is still controversial and does not have a lot of precedents.






                share|improve this answer





























                  1














                  If the subject-matter or circumstances of the "repeat" referendum are sufficiently different, there is no difference from elections.



                  Yeah, I know the typical argument against referendum repeats is the "democratic deficit" they supposedly have by asking the "same question". (I'll come back to this.) But before we get to that: one could ask the question in reverse: why would a candidate that has failed an election be allowed to run again later for the same office?! After all, the public said no to him. Should he be allowed to run until he gets his way? Of course, even if all candidates are exactly the same on a later ballot, chances are something has changed: their platforms etc.



                  Now as for the "same question" referendums, the much criticized repeat referendums for EU Treaty changes/adoptions didn't ever have the exact same question, even if it was nominally the same on paper. There were in fact concessions and renegotiations before the "same" question was asked in all cases. The referendum repeat that was preceded by least concessions was the one with the lowest initial turnout: Nice 2001 in Ireland. In that case, the changes were more declarative than legally binding and efforts focused on a better campaign. For the other repeats, the concessions were more substantive and based on the specific objections of the "no" campaigns; after the Danish referendum of 1992, there was a legally binding [under international law] document agreed by all EU heads of state, although its position within the EU legal framework was considered somewhat awkward. The Irish rejection of the Lisbon Treaty in 2008 also resulted in substantive concessions; these took a legal form similar to the solution to the 1992 Danish problem, but it was also boosted by an agreement to include a specific part of it in a future EU treaty, as to clarify its position in EU law as well. (The convenient legal vehicle that was found for the latter was Croatia's accession treaty of 2011.)



                  Finally, how does this relate to Brexit referendum(s)? The more concrete proposals I know about don't simply ask for a repeat (although I have no doubt the vague notion may have been publicly discussed). Instead the proposal(s) I know about were for a "confirmatory" referendum, meaning the now-concrete deal would be voted on, instead of a general/vague idea. Arguably this is somewhat different than a new referendum following concessions/renegotiation. But in either case, the public has substantially new information that it can use to answer the "same" question, which in the case of a Brexit confirmatory referendum wouldn't even be nominally the same. (Bercow would be pleased.)



                  And if I'm allowed an imperfect but hopefully still informative analogy: I would compare the 2016 Brexit referendum to an "informal" poll in the EU Council proceedings, which asks each member for their position in principle, at the start of a
                  discussion, but without binding the member to agree to whatever final legal document is produced. I have a couple of arguments in support of this: unlike the 2011 AV referendum, the law authorizing the 2016 one did not make the referendum result legally binding.
                  Furthermore, the uncertainty regarding the exact separation conditions (that had yet to be negotiated) give it this "agreement-in-principle" character, similar to the EU Council "informal" polls. (The analogy only goes so far, of course: there is no record kept of the EU Council's informal polls, something that's impossible to do with a nationwide referendum.) The confirmatory referendums proposed (in the amendments I know about) would, in contrast, be legally binding and also about a specific way of exiting the EU.



                  Finally, I will concede that the topic of repeat referendums is still controversial and does not have a lot of precedents.






                  share|improve this answer



























                    1












                    1








                    1







                    If the subject-matter or circumstances of the "repeat" referendum are sufficiently different, there is no difference from elections.



                    Yeah, I know the typical argument against referendum repeats is the "democratic deficit" they supposedly have by asking the "same question". (I'll come back to this.) But before we get to that: one could ask the question in reverse: why would a candidate that has failed an election be allowed to run again later for the same office?! After all, the public said no to him. Should he be allowed to run until he gets his way? Of course, even if all candidates are exactly the same on a later ballot, chances are something has changed: their platforms etc.



                    Now as for the "same question" referendums, the much criticized repeat referendums for EU Treaty changes/adoptions didn't ever have the exact same question, even if it was nominally the same on paper. There were in fact concessions and renegotiations before the "same" question was asked in all cases. The referendum repeat that was preceded by least concessions was the one with the lowest initial turnout: Nice 2001 in Ireland. In that case, the changes were more declarative than legally binding and efforts focused on a better campaign. For the other repeats, the concessions were more substantive and based on the specific objections of the "no" campaigns; after the Danish referendum of 1992, there was a legally binding [under international law] document agreed by all EU heads of state, although its position within the EU legal framework was considered somewhat awkward. The Irish rejection of the Lisbon Treaty in 2008 also resulted in substantive concessions; these took a legal form similar to the solution to the 1992 Danish problem, but it was also boosted by an agreement to include a specific part of it in a future EU treaty, as to clarify its position in EU law as well. (The convenient legal vehicle that was found for the latter was Croatia's accession treaty of 2011.)



                    Finally, how does this relate to Brexit referendum(s)? The more concrete proposals I know about don't simply ask for a repeat (although I have no doubt the vague notion may have been publicly discussed). Instead the proposal(s) I know about were for a "confirmatory" referendum, meaning the now-concrete deal would be voted on, instead of a general/vague idea. Arguably this is somewhat different than a new referendum following concessions/renegotiation. But in either case, the public has substantially new information that it can use to answer the "same" question, which in the case of a Brexit confirmatory referendum wouldn't even be nominally the same. (Bercow would be pleased.)



                    And if I'm allowed an imperfect but hopefully still informative analogy: I would compare the 2016 Brexit referendum to an "informal" poll in the EU Council proceedings, which asks each member for their position in principle, at the start of a
                    discussion, but without binding the member to agree to whatever final legal document is produced. I have a couple of arguments in support of this: unlike the 2011 AV referendum, the law authorizing the 2016 one did not make the referendum result legally binding.
                    Furthermore, the uncertainty regarding the exact separation conditions (that had yet to be negotiated) give it this "agreement-in-principle" character, similar to the EU Council "informal" polls. (The analogy only goes so far, of course: there is no record kept of the EU Council's informal polls, something that's impossible to do with a nationwide referendum.) The confirmatory referendums proposed (in the amendments I know about) would, in contrast, be legally binding and also about a specific way of exiting the EU.



                    Finally, I will concede that the topic of repeat referendums is still controversial and does not have a lot of precedents.






                    share|improve this answer















                    If the subject-matter or circumstances of the "repeat" referendum are sufficiently different, there is no difference from elections.



                    Yeah, I know the typical argument against referendum repeats is the "democratic deficit" they supposedly have by asking the "same question". (I'll come back to this.) But before we get to that: one could ask the question in reverse: why would a candidate that has failed an election be allowed to run again later for the same office?! After all, the public said no to him. Should he be allowed to run until he gets his way? Of course, even if all candidates are exactly the same on a later ballot, chances are something has changed: their platforms etc.



                    Now as for the "same question" referendums, the much criticized repeat referendums for EU Treaty changes/adoptions didn't ever have the exact same question, even if it was nominally the same on paper. There were in fact concessions and renegotiations before the "same" question was asked in all cases. The referendum repeat that was preceded by least concessions was the one with the lowest initial turnout: Nice 2001 in Ireland. In that case, the changes were more declarative than legally binding and efforts focused on a better campaign. For the other repeats, the concessions were more substantive and based on the specific objections of the "no" campaigns; after the Danish referendum of 1992, there was a legally binding [under international law] document agreed by all EU heads of state, although its position within the EU legal framework was considered somewhat awkward. The Irish rejection of the Lisbon Treaty in 2008 also resulted in substantive concessions; these took a legal form similar to the solution to the 1992 Danish problem, but it was also boosted by an agreement to include a specific part of it in a future EU treaty, as to clarify its position in EU law as well. (The convenient legal vehicle that was found for the latter was Croatia's accession treaty of 2011.)



                    Finally, how does this relate to Brexit referendum(s)? The more concrete proposals I know about don't simply ask for a repeat (although I have no doubt the vague notion may have been publicly discussed). Instead the proposal(s) I know about were for a "confirmatory" referendum, meaning the now-concrete deal would be voted on, instead of a general/vague idea. Arguably this is somewhat different than a new referendum following concessions/renegotiation. But in either case, the public has substantially new information that it can use to answer the "same" question, which in the case of a Brexit confirmatory referendum wouldn't even be nominally the same. (Bercow would be pleased.)



                    And if I'm allowed an imperfect but hopefully still informative analogy: I would compare the 2016 Brexit referendum to an "informal" poll in the EU Council proceedings, which asks each member for their position in principle, at the start of a
                    discussion, but without binding the member to agree to whatever final legal document is produced. I have a couple of arguments in support of this: unlike the 2011 AV referendum, the law authorizing the 2016 one did not make the referendum result legally binding.
                    Furthermore, the uncertainty regarding the exact separation conditions (that had yet to be negotiated) give it this "agreement-in-principle" character, similar to the EU Council "informal" polls. (The analogy only goes so far, of course: there is no record kept of the EU Council's informal polls, something that's impossible to do with a nationwide referendum.) The confirmatory referendums proposed (in the amendments I know about) would, in contrast, be legally binding and also about a specific way of exiting the EU.



                    Finally, I will concede that the topic of repeat referendums is still controversial and does not have a lot of precedents.







                    share|improve this answer














                    share|improve this answer



                    share|improve this answer








                    edited 4 hours ago

























                    answered 6 hours ago









                    FizzFizz

                    14.1k23490




                    14.1k23490





















                        0














                        When a politician is elected, the voters assume that he or she will be put in office very soon. How many times can you say in a western democracy that a politician was elected, but never actually took office?



                        The decision by the UK to leave the EU was elected by the voters, but the UK is still in the EU. If the UK holds another referendum and the Remainers win, who's to say that the Leavers can't demand a 3rd referendum? Or 4th? What's the point?






                        share|improve this answer


















                        • 2





                          You're applying two different standards. On the one hand side you're comparing well functioning democratic voting with a referendum that's fuming with lies and campaign finance law violations. In less well functioning "democracies" calls to re-run elections are a regular occurrence. Whether they do occur is another matter, but you can't just assume that a well run democratic vote compares with something reminiscent of a banana republic.

                          – Denis de Bernardy
                          9 hours ago











                        • @DenisdeBernardy are you sure general elections in stable democracies are completely free of lies and don't have campaign finance law violations? I think that's wishful thinking. Some examples: G.W. Bush, Obama & Trump.

                          – JJJ
                          8 hours ago












                        • @JJJ: Not sure at all. My initial comment on this answer literally was: "Hillary Clinton? Al Gore?" But then he edited the answer so it's much more detailed, so I switched to the one above.

                          – Denis de Bernardy
                          8 hours ago











                        • @DenisdeBernardy Many Leavers say that the Remain campaign is also fuming with lies. Who is the UK to believe?

                          – user3163495
                          4 hours ago
















                        0














                        When a politician is elected, the voters assume that he or she will be put in office very soon. How many times can you say in a western democracy that a politician was elected, but never actually took office?



                        The decision by the UK to leave the EU was elected by the voters, but the UK is still in the EU. If the UK holds another referendum and the Remainers win, who's to say that the Leavers can't demand a 3rd referendum? Or 4th? What's the point?






                        share|improve this answer


















                        • 2





                          You're applying two different standards. On the one hand side you're comparing well functioning democratic voting with a referendum that's fuming with lies and campaign finance law violations. In less well functioning "democracies" calls to re-run elections are a regular occurrence. Whether they do occur is another matter, but you can't just assume that a well run democratic vote compares with something reminiscent of a banana republic.

                          – Denis de Bernardy
                          9 hours ago











                        • @DenisdeBernardy are you sure general elections in stable democracies are completely free of lies and don't have campaign finance law violations? I think that's wishful thinking. Some examples: G.W. Bush, Obama & Trump.

                          – JJJ
                          8 hours ago












                        • @JJJ: Not sure at all. My initial comment on this answer literally was: "Hillary Clinton? Al Gore?" But then he edited the answer so it's much more detailed, so I switched to the one above.

                          – Denis de Bernardy
                          8 hours ago











                        • @DenisdeBernardy Many Leavers say that the Remain campaign is also fuming with lies. Who is the UK to believe?

                          – user3163495
                          4 hours ago














                        0












                        0








                        0







                        When a politician is elected, the voters assume that he or she will be put in office very soon. How many times can you say in a western democracy that a politician was elected, but never actually took office?



                        The decision by the UK to leave the EU was elected by the voters, but the UK is still in the EU. If the UK holds another referendum and the Remainers win, who's to say that the Leavers can't demand a 3rd referendum? Or 4th? What's the point?






                        share|improve this answer













                        When a politician is elected, the voters assume that he or she will be put in office very soon. How many times can you say in a western democracy that a politician was elected, but never actually took office?



                        The decision by the UK to leave the EU was elected by the voters, but the UK is still in the EU. If the UK holds another referendum and the Remainers win, who's to say that the Leavers can't demand a 3rd referendum? Or 4th? What's the point?







                        share|improve this answer












                        share|improve this answer



                        share|improve this answer










                        answered 9 hours ago









                        user3163495user3163495

                        1646




                        1646







                        • 2





                          You're applying two different standards. On the one hand side you're comparing well functioning democratic voting with a referendum that's fuming with lies and campaign finance law violations. In less well functioning "democracies" calls to re-run elections are a regular occurrence. Whether they do occur is another matter, but you can't just assume that a well run democratic vote compares with something reminiscent of a banana republic.

                          – Denis de Bernardy
                          9 hours ago











                        • @DenisdeBernardy are you sure general elections in stable democracies are completely free of lies and don't have campaign finance law violations? I think that's wishful thinking. Some examples: G.W. Bush, Obama & Trump.

                          – JJJ
                          8 hours ago












                        • @JJJ: Not sure at all. My initial comment on this answer literally was: "Hillary Clinton? Al Gore?" But then he edited the answer so it's much more detailed, so I switched to the one above.

                          – Denis de Bernardy
                          8 hours ago











                        • @DenisdeBernardy Many Leavers say that the Remain campaign is also fuming with lies. Who is the UK to believe?

                          – user3163495
                          4 hours ago













                        • 2





                          You're applying two different standards. On the one hand side you're comparing well functioning democratic voting with a referendum that's fuming with lies and campaign finance law violations. In less well functioning "democracies" calls to re-run elections are a regular occurrence. Whether they do occur is another matter, but you can't just assume that a well run democratic vote compares with something reminiscent of a banana republic.

                          – Denis de Bernardy
                          9 hours ago











                        • @DenisdeBernardy are you sure general elections in stable democracies are completely free of lies and don't have campaign finance law violations? I think that's wishful thinking. Some examples: G.W. Bush, Obama & Trump.

                          – JJJ
                          8 hours ago












                        • @JJJ: Not sure at all. My initial comment on this answer literally was: "Hillary Clinton? Al Gore?" But then he edited the answer so it's much more detailed, so I switched to the one above.

                          – Denis de Bernardy
                          8 hours ago











                        • @DenisdeBernardy Many Leavers say that the Remain campaign is also fuming with lies. Who is the UK to believe?

                          – user3163495
                          4 hours ago








                        2




                        2





                        You're applying two different standards. On the one hand side you're comparing well functioning democratic voting with a referendum that's fuming with lies and campaign finance law violations. In less well functioning "democracies" calls to re-run elections are a regular occurrence. Whether they do occur is another matter, but you can't just assume that a well run democratic vote compares with something reminiscent of a banana republic.

                        – Denis de Bernardy
                        9 hours ago





                        You're applying two different standards. On the one hand side you're comparing well functioning democratic voting with a referendum that's fuming with lies and campaign finance law violations. In less well functioning "democracies" calls to re-run elections are a regular occurrence. Whether they do occur is another matter, but you can't just assume that a well run democratic vote compares with something reminiscent of a banana republic.

                        – Denis de Bernardy
                        9 hours ago













                        @DenisdeBernardy are you sure general elections in stable democracies are completely free of lies and don't have campaign finance law violations? I think that's wishful thinking. Some examples: G.W. Bush, Obama & Trump.

                        – JJJ
                        8 hours ago






                        @DenisdeBernardy are you sure general elections in stable democracies are completely free of lies and don't have campaign finance law violations? I think that's wishful thinking. Some examples: G.W. Bush, Obama & Trump.

                        – JJJ
                        8 hours ago














                        @JJJ: Not sure at all. My initial comment on this answer literally was: "Hillary Clinton? Al Gore?" But then he edited the answer so it's much more detailed, so I switched to the one above.

                        – Denis de Bernardy
                        8 hours ago





                        @JJJ: Not sure at all. My initial comment on this answer literally was: "Hillary Clinton? Al Gore?" But then he edited the answer so it's much more detailed, so I switched to the one above.

                        – Denis de Bernardy
                        8 hours ago













                        @DenisdeBernardy Many Leavers say that the Remain campaign is also fuming with lies. Who is the UK to believe?

                        – user3163495
                        4 hours ago






                        @DenisdeBernardy Many Leavers say that the Remain campaign is also fuming with lies. Who is the UK to believe?

                        – user3163495
                        4 hours ago












                        0














                        At a formal level you're asking about two different standards



                        Where elections are usually not a source of contention in the UK, the referendum certainly was. Because of a long string of lies and at times dispiriting fear mongering during the campaign (remember the bus that got disowned by Farage the day after Leave won?), and because of campaign finance law violations.



                        And just to be clear here: even in reasonably well functioning democracies, elections are contested and there's no shortage of campaign finance violations, corruption, and at times outright fraud, or voter suppression, or even legal challenges of the result (remember Gore?). Still, it works relatively well compared to, say, [your pick of a less mature democracy; ideally one with a semi- or full-blown autocrat at the helm].



                        If you instead compare the Brexit referendum with elections in less well run democracies, where blatant lies and campaign law violations are more commonplace, things become murkier. You'll find that, actually, observers do suggest an honest rerun every so often, when it's not the voters themselves who ask for one. (Whether it gets done is another story entirely of course, which makes it a non-story in western countries unless people get shot at for protesting the vote.)



                        At a more substantive level there are two sides of this coin



                        On the one hand side you've May and politicians on both sides of the political spectrum who are arguing that if voters are asked to vote for this again, especially without seeing it put into place before that, then they will lose even more faith in their politicians and their democratic institutions. And I agree with that argument up to a point. You can't put something back to the voters until they give the answer you want (which, fun fact, EU leaders technically did in a sense with the Lisbon treaty). But I'd also stress that in May's specific case, it's also and actually about keeping the Conservative Party intact. And even if we leave the bad faith and the political calculations aside, there's probably something to be said about gaining and retaining voters' trust to begin with.



                        On the other hand side, those who support a People's Vote argue that hey, those who voted Leave had no idea about what they were signing up for. They were lied to, and promised the moon, etc. They can now actually make up their mind and decide on whether it's a good idea with a concrete deal before them. They actually have an excellent point -- whichever other option(s) voters would want to see on the ballot (No Brexit, or No Deal, or both). And it makes a good deal of sense, when you consider that defending the concrete but imperfect things that you have can't really win a battle in the court of public opinion, against some hypothetical, as of yet defined, and very wishful place some would like to take you.




                        More to the point, and as I've noted in an earlier comment to your question, the real wtf here is: what's the big deal about repeating a referendum, when the ERG's second in command asked earlier today for an early repeat of May's confidence vote -- on the basis, wait for it, that had they known what it entailed, many would have not voted the same way?






                        share|improve this answer





























                          0














                          At a formal level you're asking about two different standards



                          Where elections are usually not a source of contention in the UK, the referendum certainly was. Because of a long string of lies and at times dispiriting fear mongering during the campaign (remember the bus that got disowned by Farage the day after Leave won?), and because of campaign finance law violations.



                          And just to be clear here: even in reasonably well functioning democracies, elections are contested and there's no shortage of campaign finance violations, corruption, and at times outright fraud, or voter suppression, or even legal challenges of the result (remember Gore?). Still, it works relatively well compared to, say, [your pick of a less mature democracy; ideally one with a semi- or full-blown autocrat at the helm].



                          If you instead compare the Brexit referendum with elections in less well run democracies, where blatant lies and campaign law violations are more commonplace, things become murkier. You'll find that, actually, observers do suggest an honest rerun every so often, when it's not the voters themselves who ask for one. (Whether it gets done is another story entirely of course, which makes it a non-story in western countries unless people get shot at for protesting the vote.)



                          At a more substantive level there are two sides of this coin



                          On the one hand side you've May and politicians on both sides of the political spectrum who are arguing that if voters are asked to vote for this again, especially without seeing it put into place before that, then they will lose even more faith in their politicians and their democratic institutions. And I agree with that argument up to a point. You can't put something back to the voters until they give the answer you want (which, fun fact, EU leaders technically did in a sense with the Lisbon treaty). But I'd also stress that in May's specific case, it's also and actually about keeping the Conservative Party intact. And even if we leave the bad faith and the political calculations aside, there's probably something to be said about gaining and retaining voters' trust to begin with.



                          On the other hand side, those who support a People's Vote argue that hey, those who voted Leave had no idea about what they were signing up for. They were lied to, and promised the moon, etc. They can now actually make up their mind and decide on whether it's a good idea with a concrete deal before them. They actually have an excellent point -- whichever other option(s) voters would want to see on the ballot (No Brexit, or No Deal, or both). And it makes a good deal of sense, when you consider that defending the concrete but imperfect things that you have can't really win a battle in the court of public opinion, against some hypothetical, as of yet defined, and very wishful place some would like to take you.




                          More to the point, and as I've noted in an earlier comment to your question, the real wtf here is: what's the big deal about repeating a referendum, when the ERG's second in command asked earlier today for an early repeat of May's confidence vote -- on the basis, wait for it, that had they known what it entailed, many would have not voted the same way?






                          share|improve this answer



























                            0












                            0








                            0







                            At a formal level you're asking about two different standards



                            Where elections are usually not a source of contention in the UK, the referendum certainly was. Because of a long string of lies and at times dispiriting fear mongering during the campaign (remember the bus that got disowned by Farage the day after Leave won?), and because of campaign finance law violations.



                            And just to be clear here: even in reasonably well functioning democracies, elections are contested and there's no shortage of campaign finance violations, corruption, and at times outright fraud, or voter suppression, or even legal challenges of the result (remember Gore?). Still, it works relatively well compared to, say, [your pick of a less mature democracy; ideally one with a semi- or full-blown autocrat at the helm].



                            If you instead compare the Brexit referendum with elections in less well run democracies, where blatant lies and campaign law violations are more commonplace, things become murkier. You'll find that, actually, observers do suggest an honest rerun every so often, when it's not the voters themselves who ask for one. (Whether it gets done is another story entirely of course, which makes it a non-story in western countries unless people get shot at for protesting the vote.)



                            At a more substantive level there are two sides of this coin



                            On the one hand side you've May and politicians on both sides of the political spectrum who are arguing that if voters are asked to vote for this again, especially without seeing it put into place before that, then they will lose even more faith in their politicians and their democratic institutions. And I agree with that argument up to a point. You can't put something back to the voters until they give the answer you want (which, fun fact, EU leaders technically did in a sense with the Lisbon treaty). But I'd also stress that in May's specific case, it's also and actually about keeping the Conservative Party intact. And even if we leave the bad faith and the political calculations aside, there's probably something to be said about gaining and retaining voters' trust to begin with.



                            On the other hand side, those who support a People's Vote argue that hey, those who voted Leave had no idea about what they were signing up for. They were lied to, and promised the moon, etc. They can now actually make up their mind and decide on whether it's a good idea with a concrete deal before them. They actually have an excellent point -- whichever other option(s) voters would want to see on the ballot (No Brexit, or No Deal, or both). And it makes a good deal of sense, when you consider that defending the concrete but imperfect things that you have can't really win a battle in the court of public opinion, against some hypothetical, as of yet defined, and very wishful place some would like to take you.




                            More to the point, and as I've noted in an earlier comment to your question, the real wtf here is: what's the big deal about repeating a referendum, when the ERG's second in command asked earlier today for an early repeat of May's confidence vote -- on the basis, wait for it, that had they known what it entailed, many would have not voted the same way?






                            share|improve this answer















                            At a formal level you're asking about two different standards



                            Where elections are usually not a source of contention in the UK, the referendum certainly was. Because of a long string of lies and at times dispiriting fear mongering during the campaign (remember the bus that got disowned by Farage the day after Leave won?), and because of campaign finance law violations.



                            And just to be clear here: even in reasonably well functioning democracies, elections are contested and there's no shortage of campaign finance violations, corruption, and at times outright fraud, or voter suppression, or even legal challenges of the result (remember Gore?). Still, it works relatively well compared to, say, [your pick of a less mature democracy; ideally one with a semi- or full-blown autocrat at the helm].



                            If you instead compare the Brexit referendum with elections in less well run democracies, where blatant lies and campaign law violations are more commonplace, things become murkier. You'll find that, actually, observers do suggest an honest rerun every so often, when it's not the voters themselves who ask for one. (Whether it gets done is another story entirely of course, which makes it a non-story in western countries unless people get shot at for protesting the vote.)



                            At a more substantive level there are two sides of this coin



                            On the one hand side you've May and politicians on both sides of the political spectrum who are arguing that if voters are asked to vote for this again, especially without seeing it put into place before that, then they will lose even more faith in their politicians and their democratic institutions. And I agree with that argument up to a point. You can't put something back to the voters until they give the answer you want (which, fun fact, EU leaders technically did in a sense with the Lisbon treaty). But I'd also stress that in May's specific case, it's also and actually about keeping the Conservative Party intact. And even if we leave the bad faith and the political calculations aside, there's probably something to be said about gaining and retaining voters' trust to begin with.



                            On the other hand side, those who support a People's Vote argue that hey, those who voted Leave had no idea about what they were signing up for. They were lied to, and promised the moon, etc. They can now actually make up their mind and decide on whether it's a good idea with a concrete deal before them. They actually have an excellent point -- whichever other option(s) voters would want to see on the ballot (No Brexit, or No Deal, or both). And it makes a good deal of sense, when you consider that defending the concrete but imperfect things that you have can't really win a battle in the court of public opinion, against some hypothetical, as of yet defined, and very wishful place some would like to take you.




                            More to the point, and as I've noted in an earlier comment to your question, the real wtf here is: what's the big deal about repeating a referendum, when the ERG's second in command asked earlier today for an early repeat of May's confidence vote -- on the basis, wait for it, that had they known what it entailed, many would have not voted the same way?







                            share|improve this answer














                            share|improve this answer



                            share|improve this answer








                            edited 7 hours ago

























                            answered 8 hours ago









                            Denis de BernardyDenis de Bernardy

                            14.7k33967




                            14.7k33967



























                                draft saved

                                draft discarded
















































                                Thanks for contributing an answer to Politics Stack Exchange!


                                • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

                                But avoid


                                • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

                                • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.

                                To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




                                draft saved


                                draft discarded














                                StackExchange.ready(
                                function ()
                                StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fpolitics.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f40369%2fwhats-the-difference-between-repeating-elections-every-few-years-and-repeating%23new-answer', 'question_page');

                                );

                                Post as a guest















                                Required, but never shown





















































                                Required, but never shown














                                Required, but never shown












                                Required, but never shown







                                Required, but never shown

































                                Required, but never shown














                                Required, but never shown












                                Required, but never shown







                                Required, but never shown







                                Popular posts from this blog

                                یوتیوب محتویات پیشینه[ویرایش] فناوری‌های ویدئویی[ویرایش] شوخی‌های آوریل[ویرایش] سانسور و فیلترینگ[ویرایش] آمار و ارقامی از یوتیوب[ویرایش] تأثیر اجتماعی[ویرایش] سیاست اجتماعی[ویرایش] نمودارها[ویرایش] یادداشت‌ها[ویرایش] پانویس[ویرایش] پیوند به بیرون[ویرایش] منوی ناوبریبررسی شده‌استYouTube.com[بروزرسانی]"Youtube.com Site Info""زبان‌های یوتیوب""Surprise! There's a third YouTube co-founder"سایت یوتیوب برای چندمین بار در ایران فیلتر شدنسخهٔ اصلیسالار کمانگر جوان آمریکایی ایرانی الاصل مدیر سایت یوتیوب شدنسخهٔ اصلیVideo websites pop up, invite postingsthe originalthe originalYouTube: Overnight success has sparked a backlashthe original"Me at the zoo"YouTube serves up 100 million videos a day onlinethe originalcomScore Releases May 2010 U.S. Online Video Rankingsthe originalYouTube hits 4 billion daily video viewsthe originalYouTube users uploading two days of video every minutethe originalEric Schmidt, Princeton Colloquium on Public & Int'l Affairsthe original«Streaming Dreams»نسخهٔ اصلیAlexa Traffic Rank for YouTube (three month average)the originalHelp! YouTube is killing my business!the originalUtube sues YouTubethe originalGoogle closes $A2b YouTube dealthe originalFlash moves on to smart phonesthe originalYouTube HTML5 Video Playerنسخهٔ اصلیYouTube HTML5 Video Playerthe originalGoogle tries freeing Web video with WebMthe originalVideo length for uploadingthe originalYouTube caps video lengths to reduce infringementthe originalAccount Types: Longer videosthe originalYouTube bumps video limit to 15 minutesthe originalUploading large files and resumable uploadingthe originalVideo Formats: File formatsthe originalGetting Started: File formatsthe originalThe quest for a new video codec in Flash 8the originalAdobe Flash Video File Format Specification Version 10.1the originalYouTube Mobile goes livethe originalYouTube videos go HD with a simple hackthe originalYouTube now supports 4k-resolution videosthe originalYouTube to get high-def 1080p playerthe original«Approximate YouTube Bitrates»نسخهٔ اصلی«Bigger and Better: Encoding for YouTube 720p HD»نسخهٔ اصلی«YouTube's 1080p – Failure Depends on How You Look At It»نسخهٔ اصلیYouTube in 3Dthe originalYouTube in 3D?the originalYouTube 3D Videosthe originalYouTube adds a dimension, 3D goggles not includedthe originalYouTube Adds Stereoscopic 3D Video Support (And 3D Vision Support, Too)the original«Sharing YouTube Videos»نسخهٔ اصلی«Downloading videos from YouTube is not supported, except for one instance when it is permitted.»نسخهٔ اصلی«Terms of Use, 5.B»نسخهٔ اصلی«Some YouTube videos get download option»نسخهٔ اصلی«YouTube looks out for content owners, disables video ripping»«Downloading videos from YouTube is not supported, except for one instance when it is permitted.»نسخهٔ اصلی«YouTube Hopes To Boost Revenue With Video Downloads»نسخهٔ اصلی«YouTube Mobile»نسخهٔ اصلی«YouTube Live on Apple TV Today; Coming to iPhone on June 29»نسخهٔ اصلی«Goodbye Flash: YouTube mobile goes HTML5 on iPhone and Android»نسخهٔ اصلی«YouTube Mobile Goes HTML5, Video Quality Beats Native Apps Hands Down»نسخهٔ اصلی«TiVo Getting YouTube Streaming Today»نسخهٔ اصلی«YouTube video comes to Wii and PlayStation 3 game consoles»نسخهٔ اصلی«Coming Up Next... YouTube on Your TV»نسخهٔ اصلی«Experience YouTube XL on the Big Screen»نسخهٔ اصلی«Xbox Live Getting Live TV, YouTube & Bing Voice Search»نسخهٔ اصلی«YouTube content locations»نسخهٔ اصلی«April fools: YouTube turns the world up-side-down»نسخهٔ اصلی«YouTube goes back to 1911 for April Fools' Day»نسخهٔ اصلی«Simon Cowell's bromance, the self-driving Nascar and Hungry Hippos for iPad... the best April Fools' gags»نسخهٔ اصلی"YouTube Announces It Will Shut Down""YouTube Adds Darude 'Sandstorm' Button To Its Videos For April Fools' Day"«Censorship fears rise as Iran blocks access to top websites»نسخهٔ اصلی«China 'blocks YouTube video site'»نسخهٔ اصلی«YouTube shut down in Morocco»نسخهٔ اصلی«Thailand blocks access to YouTube»نسخهٔ اصلی«Ban on YouTube lifted after deal»نسخهٔ اصلی«Google's Gatekeepers»نسخهٔ اصلی«Turkey goes into battle with Google»نسخهٔ اصلی«Turkey lifts two-year ban on YouTube»نسخهٔ اصلیسانسور در ترکیه به یوتیوب رسیدلغو فیلترینگ یوتیوب در ترکیه«Pakistan blocks YouTube website»نسخهٔ اصلی«Pakistan lifts the ban on YouTube»نسخهٔ اصلی«Pakistan blocks access to YouTube in internet crackdown»نسخهٔ اصلی«Watchdog urges Libya to stop blocking websites»نسخهٔ اصلی«YouTube»نسخهٔ اصلی«Due to abuses of religion, customs Emirates, YouTube is blocked in the UAE»نسخهٔ اصلی«Google Conquered The Web - An Ultimate Winner»نسخهٔ اصلی«100 million videos are viewed daily on YouTube»نسخهٔ اصلی«Harry and Charlie Davies-Carr: Web gets taste for biting baby»نسخهٔ اصلی«Meet YouTube's 224 million girl, Natalie Tran»نسخهٔ اصلی«YouTube to Double Down on Its 'Channel' Experiment»نسخهٔ اصلی«13 Some Media Companies Choose to Profit From Pirated YouTube Clips»نسخهٔ اصلی«Irate HK man unlikely Web hero»نسخهٔ اصلی«Web Guitar Wizard Revealed at Last»نسخهٔ اصلی«Charlie bit my finger – again!»نسخهٔ اصلی«Lowered Expectations: Web Redefines 'Quality'»نسخهٔ اصلی«YouTube's 50 Greatest Viral Videos»نسخهٔ اصلیYouTube Community Guidelinesthe original«Why did my YouTube account get closed down?»نسخهٔ اصلی«Why do I have a sanction on my account?»نسخهٔ اصلی«Is YouTube's three-strike rule fair to users?»نسخهٔ اصلی«Viacom will sue YouTube for $1bn»نسخهٔ اصلی«Mediaset Files EUR500 Million Suit Vs Google's YouTube»نسخهٔ اصلی«Premier League to take action against YouTube»نسخهٔ اصلی«YouTube law fight 'threatens net'»نسخهٔ اصلی«Google must divulge YouTube log»نسخهٔ اصلی«Google Told to Turn Over User Data of YouTube»نسخهٔ اصلی«US judge tosses out Viacom copyright suit against YouTube»نسخهٔ اصلی«Google and Viacom: YouTube copyright lawsuit back on»نسخهٔ اصلی«Woman can sue over YouTube clip de-posting»نسخهٔ اصلی«YouTube loses court battle over music clips»نسخهٔ اصلیYouTube to Test Software To Ease Licensing Fightsthe original«Press Statistics»نسخهٔ اصلی«Testing YouTube's Audio Content ID System»نسخهٔ اصلی«Content ID disputes»نسخهٔ اصلیYouTube Community Guidelinesthe originalYouTube criticized in Germany over anti-Semitic Nazi videosthe originalFury as YouTube carries sick Hillsboro video insultthe originalYouTube attacked by MPs over sex and violence footagethe originalAl-Awlaki's YouTube Videos Targeted by Rep. Weinerthe originalYouTube Withdraws Cleric's Videosthe originalYouTube is letting users decide on terrorism-related videosthe original«Time's Person of the Year: You»نسخهٔ اصلی«Our top 10 funniest YouTube comments – what are yours?»نسخهٔ اصلی«YouTube's worst comments blocked by filter»نسخهٔ اصلی«Site Info YouTube»نسخهٔ اصلیوبگاه YouTubeوبگاه موبایل YouTubeوووووو

                                Magento 2 - Auto login with specific URL Planned maintenance scheduled April 23, 2019 at 23:30 UTC (7:30pm US/Eastern) Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara Unicorn Meta Zoo #1: Why another podcast?Customer can't login - Page refreshes but nothing happensCustom Login page redirectURL to login with redirect URL after completionCustomer login is case sensitiveLogin with phone number or email address - Magento 1.9Magento 2: Set Customer Account Confirmation StatusCustomer auto connect from URLHow to call customer login form in the custom module action magento 2?Change of customer login error message magento2Referrer URL in modal login form

                                Rest API with Magento using PHP with example. Planned maintenance scheduled April 17/18, 2019 at 00:00UTC (8:00pm US/Eastern) Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara Unicorn Meta Zoo #1: Why another podcast?How to update product using magento client library for PHP?Oauth Error while extending Magento Rest APINot showing my custom api in wsdl(url) and web service list?Using Magento API(REST) via IXMLHTTPRequest COM ObjectHow to login in Magento website using REST APIREST api call for Guest userMagento API calling using HTML and javascriptUse API rest media management by storeView code (admin)Magento REST API Example ErrorsHow to log all rest api calls in magento2?How to update product using magento client library for PHP?