Bayes factor vs P value Unicorn Meta Zoo #1: Why another podcast? Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar ManaraWhen should I be worried about the Jeffreys-Lindley paradox in Bayesian model choice?Bayesian analysis and Lindley's paradox?Do Bayes factors require multiple comparison correction?When does it make sense to reject/accept an hypothesis?Why are 0.05 < p < 0.95 results called false positives?Marginal Likelihoods for Bayes Factors with Multiple Discrete HypothesisIs p-value essentially useless and dangerous to use?Are smaller p-values more convincing?Interpreting Granger Causality F-testBayes factor (B) vs p-values: sensitive (H0/H1) vs insensitive dataWald test and LRT arriving at different conclusionsCompute Bayesian Probability

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Bayes factor vs P value

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Bayes factor vs P value



Unicorn Meta Zoo #1: Why another podcast?
Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar ManaraWhen should I be worried about the Jeffreys-Lindley paradox in Bayesian model choice?Bayesian analysis and Lindley's paradox?Do Bayes factors require multiple comparison correction?When does it make sense to reject/accept an hypothesis?Why are 0.05 < p < 0.95 results called false positives?Marginal Likelihoods for Bayes Factors with Multiple Discrete HypothesisIs p-value essentially useless and dangerous to use?Are smaller p-values more convincing?Interpreting Granger Causality F-testBayes factor (B) vs p-values: sensitive (H0/H1) vs insensitive dataWald test and LRT arriving at different conclusionsCompute Bayesian Probability



.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty margin-bottom:0;








3












$begingroup$


I am trying to understand Bayes Factor (BF). I believe they are like likelihood ratio of 2 hypotheses. So if BF is 5, it means H1 is 5 times more likely than H0. And value of 3-10 indicates moderate evidence, while >10 indicates strong evidence.



However, for P-value, traditionally 0.05 is taken as cut-off. At this P value, H1/H0 likelihood should be 95/5 or 19.



So why a cut-off of >3 is taken for BF while a cut-off of >19 is taken for P values? These values are not anywhere close either.



I may be missing something very basic since I am a beginner in this area.










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$


















    3












    $begingroup$


    I am trying to understand Bayes Factor (BF). I believe they are like likelihood ratio of 2 hypotheses. So if BF is 5, it means H1 is 5 times more likely than H0. And value of 3-10 indicates moderate evidence, while >10 indicates strong evidence.



    However, for P-value, traditionally 0.05 is taken as cut-off. At this P value, H1/H0 likelihood should be 95/5 or 19.



    So why a cut-off of >3 is taken for BF while a cut-off of >19 is taken for P values? These values are not anywhere close either.



    I may be missing something very basic since I am a beginner in this area.










    share|cite|improve this question











    $endgroup$














      3












      3








      3


      1



      $begingroup$


      I am trying to understand Bayes Factor (BF). I believe they are like likelihood ratio of 2 hypotheses. So if BF is 5, it means H1 is 5 times more likely than H0. And value of 3-10 indicates moderate evidence, while >10 indicates strong evidence.



      However, for P-value, traditionally 0.05 is taken as cut-off. At this P value, H1/H0 likelihood should be 95/5 or 19.



      So why a cut-off of >3 is taken for BF while a cut-off of >19 is taken for P values? These values are not anywhere close either.



      I may be missing something very basic since I am a beginner in this area.










      share|cite|improve this question











      $endgroup$




      I am trying to understand Bayes Factor (BF). I believe they are like likelihood ratio of 2 hypotheses. So if BF is 5, it means H1 is 5 times more likely than H0. And value of 3-10 indicates moderate evidence, while >10 indicates strong evidence.



      However, for P-value, traditionally 0.05 is taken as cut-off. At this P value, H1/H0 likelihood should be 95/5 or 19.



      So why a cut-off of >3 is taken for BF while a cut-off of >19 is taken for P values? These values are not anywhere close either.



      I may be missing something very basic since I am a beginner in this area.







      hypothesis-testing bayesian p-value






      share|cite|improve this question















      share|cite|improve this question













      share|cite|improve this question




      share|cite|improve this question








      edited 2 hours ago







      rnso

















      asked 3 hours ago









      rnsornso

      4,067103168




      4,067103168




















          2 Answers
          2






          active

          oldest

          votes


















          4












          $begingroup$

          A few things:



          The BF gives you evidence in favor of a hypothesis, while a frequentist hypothesis test gives you evidence against a (null) hypothesis. So it's kind of "apples to oranges."



          These two procedures, despite the difference in interpretations, may lead to different decisions. For example, a BF might reject while a frequentist hypothesis test doesn't, or vice versa. This problem is often referred to as the Jeffreys-Lindley's paradox. There have been many posts on this site about this; see e.g. here, and here.



          "At this P value, H1/H0 likelihood should be 95/5 or 19." No, this isn't true because, roughly $p(y mid H_1) neq 1- p(y mid H_0)$. Computing a p-value and performing a frequentist test, at a minimum, does not require you to have any idea about $p(y mid H_1)$. Also, p-values are often integrals/sums of densities/pmfs, while a BF doesn't integrate over the data sample space.






          share|cite|improve this answer











          $endgroup$












          • $begingroup$
            Thanks for your insight. However, if evidence in favor of a hypothesis is apple, I think evidence for alternate hypothesis can be inverted apple but not orange! Also, what would you say is approximate Bayes Factor value corresponding to P=0.05?
            $endgroup$
            – rnso
            1 hour ago



















          1












          $begingroup$

          The Bayes factor $B_01$ can be turned into a probability under equal weights as
          $$P_01=frac11+frac1large B_01$$but this does not make them comparable with a $p$-value since




          1. $P_01$ is a probability in the parameter space, not in the sampling space

          2. its value and range depend on the choice of the prior measure, they are thus relative rather than absolute

          3. both $B_01$ and $P_01$ contain a penalty for complexity (Occam's razor) by integrating out over the parameter space

          If you wish to consider a Bayesian equivalent to the $p$-value, the posterior predictive $p$-value (Meng, 1994) should be investigated
          $$Q_01=mathbb P(B_01(X)le B_01(x^textobs))$$
          where $x^textobs$ denotes the observation and $X$ is distributed from the posterior predictive
          $$Xsim int_Theta f(x|theta) pi(theta|x^textobs),textdtheta$$
          but this does not imply that the same "default" criteria for rejection and significance should apply to this object.






          share|cite|improve this answer









          $endgroup$













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            2 Answers
            2






            active

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            2 Answers
            2






            active

            oldest

            votes









            active

            oldest

            votes






            active

            oldest

            votes









            4












            $begingroup$

            A few things:



            The BF gives you evidence in favor of a hypothesis, while a frequentist hypothesis test gives you evidence against a (null) hypothesis. So it's kind of "apples to oranges."



            These two procedures, despite the difference in interpretations, may lead to different decisions. For example, a BF might reject while a frequentist hypothesis test doesn't, or vice versa. This problem is often referred to as the Jeffreys-Lindley's paradox. There have been many posts on this site about this; see e.g. here, and here.



            "At this P value, H1/H0 likelihood should be 95/5 or 19." No, this isn't true because, roughly $p(y mid H_1) neq 1- p(y mid H_0)$. Computing a p-value and performing a frequentist test, at a minimum, does not require you to have any idea about $p(y mid H_1)$. Also, p-values are often integrals/sums of densities/pmfs, while a BF doesn't integrate over the data sample space.






            share|cite|improve this answer











            $endgroup$












            • $begingroup$
              Thanks for your insight. However, if evidence in favor of a hypothesis is apple, I think evidence for alternate hypothesis can be inverted apple but not orange! Also, what would you say is approximate Bayes Factor value corresponding to P=0.05?
              $endgroup$
              – rnso
              1 hour ago
















            4












            $begingroup$

            A few things:



            The BF gives you evidence in favor of a hypothesis, while a frequentist hypothesis test gives you evidence against a (null) hypothesis. So it's kind of "apples to oranges."



            These two procedures, despite the difference in interpretations, may lead to different decisions. For example, a BF might reject while a frequentist hypothesis test doesn't, or vice versa. This problem is often referred to as the Jeffreys-Lindley's paradox. There have been many posts on this site about this; see e.g. here, and here.



            "At this P value, H1/H0 likelihood should be 95/5 or 19." No, this isn't true because, roughly $p(y mid H_1) neq 1- p(y mid H_0)$. Computing a p-value and performing a frequentist test, at a minimum, does not require you to have any idea about $p(y mid H_1)$. Also, p-values are often integrals/sums of densities/pmfs, while a BF doesn't integrate over the data sample space.






            share|cite|improve this answer











            $endgroup$












            • $begingroup$
              Thanks for your insight. However, if evidence in favor of a hypothesis is apple, I think evidence for alternate hypothesis can be inverted apple but not orange! Also, what would you say is approximate Bayes Factor value corresponding to P=0.05?
              $endgroup$
              – rnso
              1 hour ago














            4












            4








            4





            $begingroup$

            A few things:



            The BF gives you evidence in favor of a hypothesis, while a frequentist hypothesis test gives you evidence against a (null) hypothesis. So it's kind of "apples to oranges."



            These two procedures, despite the difference in interpretations, may lead to different decisions. For example, a BF might reject while a frequentist hypothesis test doesn't, or vice versa. This problem is often referred to as the Jeffreys-Lindley's paradox. There have been many posts on this site about this; see e.g. here, and here.



            "At this P value, H1/H0 likelihood should be 95/5 or 19." No, this isn't true because, roughly $p(y mid H_1) neq 1- p(y mid H_0)$. Computing a p-value and performing a frequentist test, at a minimum, does not require you to have any idea about $p(y mid H_1)$. Also, p-values are often integrals/sums of densities/pmfs, while a BF doesn't integrate over the data sample space.






            share|cite|improve this answer











            $endgroup$



            A few things:



            The BF gives you evidence in favor of a hypothesis, while a frequentist hypothesis test gives you evidence against a (null) hypothesis. So it's kind of "apples to oranges."



            These two procedures, despite the difference in interpretations, may lead to different decisions. For example, a BF might reject while a frequentist hypothesis test doesn't, or vice versa. This problem is often referred to as the Jeffreys-Lindley's paradox. There have been many posts on this site about this; see e.g. here, and here.



            "At this P value, H1/H0 likelihood should be 95/5 or 19." No, this isn't true because, roughly $p(y mid H_1) neq 1- p(y mid H_0)$. Computing a p-value and performing a frequentist test, at a minimum, does not require you to have any idea about $p(y mid H_1)$. Also, p-values are often integrals/sums of densities/pmfs, while a BF doesn't integrate over the data sample space.







            share|cite|improve this answer














            share|cite|improve this answer



            share|cite|improve this answer








            edited 25 mins ago









            Xi'an

            59.8k897369




            59.8k897369










            answered 2 hours ago









            TaylorTaylor

            12.7k21946




            12.7k21946











            • $begingroup$
              Thanks for your insight. However, if evidence in favor of a hypothesis is apple, I think evidence for alternate hypothesis can be inverted apple but not orange! Also, what would you say is approximate Bayes Factor value corresponding to P=0.05?
              $endgroup$
              – rnso
              1 hour ago

















            • $begingroup$
              Thanks for your insight. However, if evidence in favor of a hypothesis is apple, I think evidence for alternate hypothesis can be inverted apple but not orange! Also, what would you say is approximate Bayes Factor value corresponding to P=0.05?
              $endgroup$
              – rnso
              1 hour ago
















            $begingroup$
            Thanks for your insight. However, if evidence in favor of a hypothesis is apple, I think evidence for alternate hypothesis can be inverted apple but not orange! Also, what would you say is approximate Bayes Factor value corresponding to P=0.05?
            $endgroup$
            – rnso
            1 hour ago





            $begingroup$
            Thanks for your insight. However, if evidence in favor of a hypothesis is apple, I think evidence for alternate hypothesis can be inverted apple but not orange! Also, what would you say is approximate Bayes Factor value corresponding to P=0.05?
            $endgroup$
            – rnso
            1 hour ago














            1












            $begingroup$

            The Bayes factor $B_01$ can be turned into a probability under equal weights as
            $$P_01=frac11+frac1large B_01$$but this does not make them comparable with a $p$-value since




            1. $P_01$ is a probability in the parameter space, not in the sampling space

            2. its value and range depend on the choice of the prior measure, they are thus relative rather than absolute

            3. both $B_01$ and $P_01$ contain a penalty for complexity (Occam's razor) by integrating out over the parameter space

            If you wish to consider a Bayesian equivalent to the $p$-value, the posterior predictive $p$-value (Meng, 1994) should be investigated
            $$Q_01=mathbb P(B_01(X)le B_01(x^textobs))$$
            where $x^textobs$ denotes the observation and $X$ is distributed from the posterior predictive
            $$Xsim int_Theta f(x|theta) pi(theta|x^textobs),textdtheta$$
            but this does not imply that the same "default" criteria for rejection and significance should apply to this object.






            share|cite|improve this answer









            $endgroup$

















              1












              $begingroup$

              The Bayes factor $B_01$ can be turned into a probability under equal weights as
              $$P_01=frac11+frac1large B_01$$but this does not make them comparable with a $p$-value since




              1. $P_01$ is a probability in the parameter space, not in the sampling space

              2. its value and range depend on the choice of the prior measure, they are thus relative rather than absolute

              3. both $B_01$ and $P_01$ contain a penalty for complexity (Occam's razor) by integrating out over the parameter space

              If you wish to consider a Bayesian equivalent to the $p$-value, the posterior predictive $p$-value (Meng, 1994) should be investigated
              $$Q_01=mathbb P(B_01(X)le B_01(x^textobs))$$
              where $x^textobs$ denotes the observation and $X$ is distributed from the posterior predictive
              $$Xsim int_Theta f(x|theta) pi(theta|x^textobs),textdtheta$$
              but this does not imply that the same "default" criteria for rejection and significance should apply to this object.






              share|cite|improve this answer









              $endgroup$















                1












                1








                1





                $begingroup$

                The Bayes factor $B_01$ can be turned into a probability under equal weights as
                $$P_01=frac11+frac1large B_01$$but this does not make them comparable with a $p$-value since




                1. $P_01$ is a probability in the parameter space, not in the sampling space

                2. its value and range depend on the choice of the prior measure, they are thus relative rather than absolute

                3. both $B_01$ and $P_01$ contain a penalty for complexity (Occam's razor) by integrating out over the parameter space

                If you wish to consider a Bayesian equivalent to the $p$-value, the posterior predictive $p$-value (Meng, 1994) should be investigated
                $$Q_01=mathbb P(B_01(X)le B_01(x^textobs))$$
                where $x^textobs$ denotes the observation and $X$ is distributed from the posterior predictive
                $$Xsim int_Theta f(x|theta) pi(theta|x^textobs),textdtheta$$
                but this does not imply that the same "default" criteria for rejection and significance should apply to this object.






                share|cite|improve this answer









                $endgroup$



                The Bayes factor $B_01$ can be turned into a probability under equal weights as
                $$P_01=frac11+frac1large B_01$$but this does not make them comparable with a $p$-value since




                1. $P_01$ is a probability in the parameter space, not in the sampling space

                2. its value and range depend on the choice of the prior measure, they are thus relative rather than absolute

                3. both $B_01$ and $P_01$ contain a penalty for complexity (Occam's razor) by integrating out over the parameter space

                If you wish to consider a Bayesian equivalent to the $p$-value, the posterior predictive $p$-value (Meng, 1994) should be investigated
                $$Q_01=mathbb P(B_01(X)le B_01(x^textobs))$$
                where $x^textobs$ denotes the observation and $X$ is distributed from the posterior predictive
                $$Xsim int_Theta f(x|theta) pi(theta|x^textobs),textdtheta$$
                but this does not imply that the same "default" criteria for rejection and significance should apply to this object.







                share|cite|improve this answer












                share|cite|improve this answer



                share|cite|improve this answer










                answered 14 mins ago









                Xi'anXi'an

                59.8k897369




                59.8k897369



























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YouTube on Your TV»نسخهٔ اصلی«Experience YouTube XL on the Big Screen»نسخهٔ اصلی«Xbox Live Getting Live TV, YouTube & Bing Voice Search»نسخهٔ اصلی«YouTube content locations»نسخهٔ اصلی«April fools: YouTube turns the world up-side-down»نسخهٔ اصلی«YouTube goes back to 1911 for April Fools' Day»نسخهٔ اصلی«Simon Cowell's bromance, the self-driving Nascar and Hungry Hippos for iPad... the best April Fools' gags»نسخهٔ اصلی"YouTube Announces It Will Shut Down""YouTube Adds Darude 'Sandstorm' Button To Its Videos For April Fools' Day"«Censorship fears rise as Iran blocks access to top websites»نسخهٔ اصلی«China 'blocks YouTube video site'»نسخهٔ اصلی«YouTube shut down in Morocco»نسخهٔ اصلی«Thailand blocks access to YouTube»نسخهٔ اصلی«Ban on YouTube lifted after deal»نسخهٔ اصلی«Google's Gatekeepers»نسخهٔ اصلی«Turkey goes into battle with Google»نسخهٔ اصلی«Turkey lifts two-year ban on YouTube»نسخهٔ اصلیسانسور در ترکیه به یوتیوب رسیدلغو فیلترینگ یوتیوب در ترکیه«Pakistan blocks YouTube website»نسخهٔ اصلی«Pakistan lifts the ban on YouTube»نسخهٔ اصلی«Pakistan blocks access to YouTube in internet crackdown»نسخهٔ اصلی«Watchdog urges Libya to stop blocking websites»نسخهٔ اصلی«YouTube»نسخهٔ اصلی«Due to abuses of religion, customs Emirates, YouTube is blocked in the UAE»نسخهٔ اصلی«Google Conquered The Web - An Ultimate Winner»نسخهٔ اصلی«100 million videos are viewed daily on YouTube»نسخهٔ اصلی«Harry and Charlie Davies-Carr: Web gets taste for biting baby»نسخهٔ اصلی«Meet YouTube's 224 million girl, Natalie Tran»نسخهٔ اصلی«YouTube to Double Down on Its 'Channel' Experiment»نسخهٔ اصلی«13 Some Media Companies Choose to Profit From Pirated YouTube Clips»نسخهٔ اصلی«Irate HK man unlikely Web hero»نسخهٔ اصلی«Web Guitar Wizard Revealed at Last»نسخهٔ اصلی«Charlie bit my finger – again!»نسخهٔ اصلی«Lowered Expectations: Web Redefines 'Quality'»نسخهٔ اصلی«YouTube's 50 Greatest Viral Videos»نسخهٔ اصلیYouTube Community Guidelinesthe original«Why did my YouTube account get closed down?»نسخهٔ اصلی«Why do I have a sanction on my account?»نسخهٔ اصلی«Is YouTube's three-strike rule fair to users?»نسخهٔ اصلی«Viacom will sue YouTube for $1bn»نسخهٔ اصلی«Mediaset Files EUR500 Million Suit Vs Google's YouTube»نسخهٔ اصلی«Premier League to take action against YouTube»نسخهٔ اصلی«YouTube law fight 'threatens net'»نسخهٔ اصلی«Google must divulge YouTube log»نسخهٔ اصلی«Google Told to Turn Over User Data of YouTube»نسخهٔ اصلی«US judge tosses out Viacom copyright suit against YouTube»نسخهٔ اصلی«Google and Viacom: YouTube copyright lawsuit back on»نسخهٔ اصلی«Woman can sue over YouTube clip de-posting»نسخهٔ اصلی«YouTube loses court battle over music clips»نسخهٔ اصلیYouTube to Test Software To Ease Licensing Fightsthe original«Press Statistics»نسخهٔ اصلی«Testing YouTube's Audio Content ID System»نسخهٔ اصلی«Content ID disputes»نسخهٔ اصلیYouTube Community Guidelinesthe originalYouTube criticized in Germany over anti-Semitic Nazi videosthe originalFury as YouTube carries sick Hillsboro video insultthe originalYouTube attacked by MPs over sex and violence footagethe originalAl-Awlaki's YouTube Videos Targeted by Rep. Weinerthe originalYouTube Withdraws Cleric's Videosthe originalYouTube is letting users decide on terrorism-related videosthe original«Time's Person of the Year: You»نسخهٔ اصلی«Our top 10 funniest YouTube comments – what are yours?»نسخهٔ اصلی«YouTube's worst comments blocked by filter»نسخهٔ اصلی«Site Info YouTube»نسخهٔ اصلیوبگاه YouTubeوبگاه موبایل YouTubeوووووو

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                    Rest API with Magento using PHP with example. Planned maintenance scheduled April 17/18, 2019 at 00:00UTC (8:00pm US/Eastern) Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara Unicorn Meta Zoo #1: Why another podcast?How to update product using magento client library for PHP?Oauth Error while extending Magento Rest APINot showing my custom api in wsdl(url) and web service list?Using Magento API(REST) via IXMLHTTPRequest COM ObjectHow to login in Magento website using REST APIREST api call for Guest userMagento API calling using HTML and javascriptUse API rest media management by storeView code (admin)Magento REST API Example ErrorsHow to log all rest api calls in magento2?How to update product using magento client library for PHP?